Mini Update

[tom.guerry]

I'm not sure what size he is, but as he gets long enough to cover the plate easily, it may help quicken him up to have the back arm/elbow start lower and lift more with the carry/positive move as opposed to back arm pulling hands back as much. This will let weight flow forward with better ability to synch. Still sequence is excellent as is.

[Stealth]

Thanks for the kind words - mini is getting it. Now it's just more bp and more bp.

Tom - I see your point on the above post. Mini (12 years old) is 5'3" and 100 pounds (soaking wet) but still hits the ball farther than most. He understands he has to "drive" the ball which is what I am most proud of. I tell kids (and parents) they need to learn to drive the ball when they are young, it's almost impossible to learn that when they get older after years of "just making contact" - IMHO.

The best thing I like about the tip and rip is that it keeps the hands in front of the body and it does not let them go back and counter rotate with the shoulders which is a killer. In the position that mini gets to during the load, he can get to most pitches regardless of the location AND drive the ball.

[tom.guerry]

As I mentioned about one of Clif's post, "keeping hands in front of body" is the same thing as "avoiding getting stuck" which is best understood from the golf perspective of how differently 1 vs 2 plane swings work.

The 2 plane swing requires the arms to move up and down in front of the body and not get stuck behind the body.

When "arm lift" or "arm load" was full/maxed out as in the olden hickory shaft days, getting stuck was not a problem. As the back swing got shorter, the arm lift was no longer max and the arm/shoulder timing got easier to screw up. This is when "getting the arms stuck" behind the body ionstead of keeping them in front of the chest became a problem.

ONE SUCCESSFUL/HIGH LEVEL WAY TO FIW GETTING STUCK IN GOLF IS TO GO TO THE 1 PLANE SWING WHICH IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT PATTERN.

In this case, the arms are swung back and forth stayiong in plane with the shoulders (shoulders and arms swing in 1 plane not 2) being the primary engine and the arms secondary. Thsi swing is NOT optimized for quickness. It is the swing that lets the big hitters go for 300-400 yards and manage misses so they will either hit the ball staright or fade it.

THIS "LONG" SWING WILL NOT WORK IN HITTING if there is good pitching/control/limited reaction time.

The mlb swing must be quick. As part of early/vertical loading, there needs to be active/full lifting of the back arm which will cause the back scap tp load adequately as well.

This happens fairly easily with a good tip/untip sequence, torquing the handle.
So in mini's case, even though the hands go back, they do NOT get stuck.

There is NO successful way to optimize the 1 plane swing for hitting quickness which is the fatal PCR flaw. You try to limit the back and forth of the arms by tension in the front shoulder and have to swing the arms in the plane of the shoulders and there is no way tothen use the shoulders to tilt the way they need to. There is no way to torque the handle.

Thus fatal upper body compensation then forces you to narrow the base/scissor the legs and spin the hip sand torso together too much without segmentation so there is no storage and release ability to permit late adjustability via shoulder tilt.

Then a number of things all conspire to keep you trapped in this pattern:

front foot closed,turn like heck,tension in front shoulder,.swing bat perp to shoulders.

There is no escaping the spin/drag this forces unless you actrually do something different.

limit arm link, still lift arms/cock hands fully then torque handle,etc.

tip and rip.

[tom.guerry]

Buster/golf nuts:

Swings in the 1 plane pattern can not be optimized for hitting which requires shoulder tilt/bypass. While you never want to tilt shoulders in golf, you can and have to in hitting to quicken a much shorter swing (greatly restricted arm lever) and adjust plane on fly. This can work in hitting as opposed to golf becasue you don't have to worry about sqaring the clubface as part of making contact on the sweetspot.

See Hardy, THE PLANE TRUTH FOR GOLFERS

P.77 SUMMARY of how 1 PLANE SWING STARTS DOWN FROM TOP:

WARNING: Do not tilt the shoulders at the start of the downswing. Tilting the right sholder straight down and the left shoulder straight upward leaves the golf club stuck behind the right side of the body [righty], which will make the club off plane. Also tilting instead of turning robs power from your main source.


P.79 SUMMARY of how 2 PLANE SWING STARTS DOWN FROM TOP:


WARNING: Do not actively turn the shoulders independently of the hips. The turn of the shoulders will blend with the movements of the arms and torso, not lead them.



Now, that's more like it (hitting that is).

[Stealth]

This happens fairly easily with a good tip/untip sequence, torquing the handle.
So in mini's case, even though the hands go back, they do NOT get stuck.

We have our team batting practice tonight - I will be able to work the tee station for some of the practice as I have an extra coach tonight. I hope to be able to work on this concept with mini and the others.

After last weeks practice I emailed all the players the clip of Mauer and had them study the positioning of the hands during the load. The fact they (hands) do NOT go back surprised some of the players AND their parents.

[swingbuster]

If you just hold the barrel near vertical and simply turn the BHUT as the stride begings vs try to push the hands back you will be immediately better

Aim for that inside seam in tee work. When your rear elbow slots the lead arm is the connected arm and the turn moves the barrel and you cannot top hand push.

When your top hand pushes you can feel it make the barrel leave the rotation and you can see the barrel hit the outside seam

Great feedback for all to see and understand

[Stealth]

Here is a recent clip. A triple to right center. We have not been working on anything specific other than lots of reps and just making sure his hands are ready at launch. He is getting off the back side better than before - still needs some work.

The team qualified this past weekend for the Triple Crown World Series in Colorado - that will be fun!

[Pronk]

Nice rip. I kind of like that hand setup as well.

[Lclifton]

Atta boy Mini!

Gotta like those results.

[Stealth]

Pronk - I like the handset as well, although sometimes I wonder if it's a little to far away from the left tittie (Dmac's word). I am also interested in what Cally and others thinks - I think if I could get mini to work on getting that lead elbow up it might help with the slight downward path of the swing. Any thoughts on this?

[Pronk]

If I had to take a guess it looks like when his foot comes down at 45, he is in a decent stretch position, but that from there the shoulders rotate directly with the hips instead of a slight lateral tilt for a frame or two. However I am trying to decide of the height of the pitch justifies much of a lateral tilt, so I am not clear with my own thoughts, just speaking outloud. Somehow when I am messing around with the feel of a lateral tilt, it seems the elbow jut that happens, and in this pattern you'd tend to finish higher.

I seem to recall a thread where Richard talked about "good swinging down", being that the hands reach their lowest point in the diagonal swing plane just before contact.

[dmac]

Pronk - I like the handset as well, although sometimes I wonder if it's a little to far away from the left tittie (Dmac's word). I am also interested in what Cally and others thinks - I think if I could get mini to work on getting that lead elbow up it might help with the slight downward path of the swing. Any thoughts on this?

I think that he looks real good and will continue to get better. His hand position is fine......he draws the hands back and gets them in good position as he starts his forward swing. If you tell him to finish high on every swing, he may just solve the the swing path issue himself. Good tip action with the bathead. Good job with your youngster Stealth.

[tom.guerry]

The "swing down" cue in golf is a way of encouraging a 2 plane swing wwhich is most similar to the mlb pattern.

In the 2 plane golf swing, you do NOT swing the arms up into the shoulder plane then have an active shoulder turn swing the arms and bat in the shoulder plane - that is the 1 plane golf sequence which is what causes the mlb player to "fly open"/pull off the ball.

PCR is the same as the 1 planer golf sequence, eliminating the running start and being too aggressive with shoulder turn. No wonder the PCR learner thnks they are always early. They have to start early, lacking the stretch and fire/lateadjustment of the mlb pattern.


In golf, the "swing down" cue in a 2 plane swing encourages the running start with the arms that swing the club down WITHOUT actively turning the shoulders/encouraging shoulder "bypass". The arms swing down and turn and the hips shift forward and turn in synch with the armms, then the shoulders turn IN RESPONSE, not in sequence from middle out.

In mlb/hitting, the purpose of the "swing down" cue can also be to DIScourage overactive shoulder turn so the shoulder is BYPASSED and the front shoulder does not fly open.

However, you have to figure out a way to do this WITHOUT swinging the arms down because this lengthens the swing too much.

Instead you have to swing down by getting a running start that torques the handle and synchs the lower body for a good running start.

So the "good" interpretation of "swing down" will encourage shoulder "bypass" without arm action thatlengthens the swing.

The shoulders should turn(or better,TILT) more down rather than fly open.

[Callyjr]

you pretty much summed already what I would say, Needs to work on the swing path upward more and the back leg thrusting forward instead of turning. I'm not a big fan of the hands away from the body, but thats style, once he launches they are where there suppose to be and thats all that counts.


I think he looks good, keep up the good work!!

cally

[Stealth]

I took mini the other day to an instructor that we worked with in the off season. He pointed out (he studies clips like us) that Bonds, Rollins and many others have a much firmer front side (slight bend in leg and more closed) when the front foot lands. You could see mini's front leg was much more bent and open when landing compared to the clips we watched.

Anyway, we had practice last night and mini absolutely crushed a few balls, as far as any he has ever hit. The ball was just jumping off his bat. He worked on a firmer front side in the garage for a few days prior - what a difference. Just thought I would share the firmer front side as maybe it will help others.