Starting this material with youth hitters- system, progression

[garvancarver]

To further answer the original post, to teach it you need to be able to feel it and do it. I'm not there yet, I probably should shut up and post some more video in my other thread. I will add some vids of my boys and I Friday.

[heavyhittersny]

Hey Coach Soriano,

I have been a big fan of your work since I had my eyes open to HLP. I have been using your Barrel Turn Progression with my kids. I wanted to know if you could share some of the cues you use while doing each station.
Thanks!

[garvancarver]

We are basically done with our season, so we can break some things down some more. I think that barrel turning progression makes a lot of sense. I realize that since my older boy has such ingrained patterns, with bat drag, that he had trouble implementing the hand pivot on a regular basis. When you bat drag, external rotation is a significant component of moving the bat. If there is not enough upward and rearward barrel angle, there is no way to turn the barrel without a racing rear elbow. I will try some of this out myself and on Son1 and post some video. I am convinced external shoulder rotation is an absolute swing killer.

[jsoriano]

Hey Coach Soriano,

I have been a big fan of your work since I had my eyes open to HLP. I have been using your Barrel Turn Progression with my kids. I wanted to know if you could share some of the cues you use while doing each station.
Thanks!

Sorry for late reply...not sure which stations you mean but...
I recently started working with a couple new kids...one all shoulders, the other big forward & downward push... first thing I like to use is the 5ft PVC stick. I make them hold it out in front in a non-hitting position and just have them turn it and tell them that-that is what swinging with forearms feels like. Then have them try it from their handset just to contact...I tell them about the 90degree relationship between barrel and rear forearm and that they need to swing barrel around perpendicular to it...and barrel working under hands. With the PVC stick or using a bat + swingcheck the extra long 'knob' provides a great checkpoint at contact position....the extended knob should be above the front forearm...angle between extended knob and front forearm varies depending on pitch height. From there I go into half swings...


First lesson with kid that was all shoulders...first time trying this exercise...pretty sure I had already talked about the role of the scap and loading pattern by this point

[Ben]

So Soriano, I am starting with a kid today.

I have been trying to get kids into the proper load/launch position and using the SnF or 1 legged and trying to work off that?

Talking about the scap and rear hip/leg relationship.

Like you said in the post had you already worked on those things with her before trying this?

[heavyhittersny]

Sorry for late reply...not sure which stations you mean but...
I recently started working with a couple new kids...one all shoulders, the other big forward & downward push... first thing I like to use is the 5ft PVC stick. I make them hold it out in front in a non-hitting position and just have them turn it and tell them that-that is what swinging with forearms feels like. Then have them try it from their handset just to contact...I tell them about the 90degree relationship between barrel and rear forearm and that they need to swing barrel around perpendicular to it...and barrel working under hands. With the PVC stick or using a bat + swingcheck the extra long 'knob' provides a great checkpoint at contact position....the extended knob should be above the front forearm...angle between extended knob and front forearm varies depending on pitch height. From there I go into half swings...


First lesson with kid that was all shoulders...first time trying this exercise...pretty sure I had already talked about the role of the scap and loading pattern by this point

Thank you Coach Soriano!!

[jsoriano]

So Soriano, I am starting with a kid today.

I have been trying to get kids into the proper load/launch position and using the SnF or 1 legged and trying to work off that?

Talking about the scap and rear hip/leg relationship.

Like you said in the post had you already worked on those things with her before trying this?

I've only worked with that kid once...the clip I posted was literally ~10min into first lesson I briefly went over the role of the scap and loading pattern...it's pretty easy to teach/learn just gotta reinforce it with every drill. Her execution ain't bad for first lesson, but can be better

Usually I just show them this clip when explaining role of scap and they get it...

[garvancarver]

I got a marketing email from Lantz Wheeler this morning that was thought provoking. It's about pitching, but easily could be transferred to hitting. Here is the heart of the message:

"Step 1: Let him FEEL the hips' separating from the rear elbow. (That's true separation.)
...

Step 2: Have him perform the delivery at different speeds while shifting his focus from separating the hips/shoulders to something external.

*Last thing you want is for him to "think" hip/shoulder separation once he begins his throwing routine.
There's 50 different ways to shift the focus internally to externally, and that's why so many drills never transfer to the mound.

Step 3: Spend time on the lift.

Think "hammock"... If you want to move through the middle you've got to anchor the feet and eyes.
It's another reason why most pitchers "stand" no chance to get more separation."


So, attempting to restate his message in hitting terms (correct me as necessary, please):

Let her/him FEEL the stretch between the coiled rear hip and fused rear scap.

Shift to external cues in the box.

Balance and vision are fundamental.


*** editing to add a link to RayR's post, which applies directly to point number one here.

http://hittingillustrated.com/forum/...hip-connection


I have some thoughts about bat drag that I will post in this thread also, just need to think them through a bit more.

[RayR]

1. the barrel path
2. the load
3. put it together

Here's a kid I just started working with. Great kid...not the most athletic, but she takes instruction pretty well and does what I ask her to at home and is getting no outside interference from her head coach or dad.

The 'before' swing they sent me before our first lesson
https://youtu.be/WmnztPRPZvw

Some stuff we worked on during our second lesson.

1Legged stop swing with arm bar (1Legged stance could be better):


1Legged stop swing w/o arm bar (1Legged stance could be better):


No stride, load&half swing tee:


No stride, load&half swing soft toss:


Happy Gilmore:


Work in progress.

One thought/observation: Should the alignment of the pvc pipe be even with the lead forearm? Of should the pvc pipe end up higher than the lead arm? Here are my thoughts on this : when I do these swings and get the pvc even I feel as if the barrel turn is more around the body. When I work the pvc above my lead arm I feel like my swing is out from the body.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Don't get me wrong I think that just getting pvc to align with the lead arm is a MAJOR improvement (

[jryan15]

One thought/observation: Should the alignment of the pvc pipe be even with the lead forearm? Of should the pvc pipe end up higher than the lead arm? Here are my thoughts on this : when I do these swings and get the pvc even I feel as if the barrel turn is more around the body. When I work the pvc above my lead arm I feel like my swing is out from the body.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Don't get me wrong I think that just getting pvc to align with the lead arm is a MAJOR improvement (

Are you discussing the top clip where she is swinging the whiffle bat? I don't know if you see it, but she is also using the arm-bar device. That tends to create extra jut that tends to produce exagerated lead arm angles.

[RayR]

Are you discussing the top clip where she is swinging the whiffle bat? I don't know if you see it, but she is also using the arm-bar device. That tends to create extra jut that tends to produce exagerated lead arm angles.

That's the clip - but I think in terms of training the arm bar device should finish above the forearm and not below. Same idea as turning knob to nose.

[RayR]

And the girl swinging the pvc in heavy's post - it should finish above

[heavyhittersny]

Hey Guys,

I tried putting some pics up but did it in gif format. Hope you all can see what i posted. I put up a pic a tweet from Teach talking about the relationship of shoulders, forearms and barrel. Then i posted two photos of Teach doing a demo of lasering a high pitch and a belt high pitch.
If anyone has used the green Swing Check device that attaches to the knob of the bat for lasering you can see that the green laser portion is always outside of the forearms. It is never inline with the forearms / shoulders except maybe on a high pitch. The Swing Check is always about to hit your face therefore it can not be inline with your forearms or shoulders. Teach has said the higher the pitch the closer to a relationship between shoulders, forearms and barrel. The lower the pitch the more that deviates. Players matching forearm, shoulders and barrel is not an absolute.

[RayR]

I bought some 5' pieces of 3/4" pvc for my players to swing. I told them to create deep whoosh using the hands forearms to take a snap/stop swing and one of the main check points was this position.



It makes such a huge difference to get to this check point

[MIKER]

Shoulders should never rotate. The fused torso unit must laterally tilt over/around the ball of the rear femur at go. In fact, the hitter should do his best to not let the shoulders rotate. The bat must be swung around the forearms not around the spine.

Ahhh ha. Great post.

So im assuming shoulders are not part of the fused torso mentioned?