Starting this material with youth hitters- system, progression

[BlueBloodBaseball]

Could really use help with this... JS, how is your pelvis so far open if you are coiled in your rear hip? Your rear foot isn't toe'd in so I would think you have a lot more ROM left in your hip? When me and my kids get in that posture and coil, our pelvis' close.

Are you bottomed out in your rear hip socket (ie can't rotate back any farther)?

Not to speak for JS, but the amount of coil backward is dictated by how much IR you can get from the rear leg.... It is all about how the forces are working against each other....

JS has his front foot/hip out of the way which allows his rear hip to pivot on command. His rear leg is the driving force though.

Compare his stance to your kid's... Can you feel the hip wanting to pivot toward the pitch? Can you feel the leg trying to pull him forward? Do you feel the "tug-of-war" going on there?

Now what do you feel in the other image?

[jryan15]

Not to speak for JS, but the amount of coil backward is dictated by how much IR you can get from the rear leg.... It is all about how the forces are working against each other....

JS has his front foot/hip out of the way which allows his rear hip to pivot on command. His rear leg is the driving force though.

Compare his stance to your kid's... Can you feel the hip wanting to pivot toward the pitch? Can you feel the leg trying to pull him forward? Do you feel the "tug-of-war" going on there?

Now what do you feel in the other image?

Very thought provoking points. You touched on a topic that I brought up years ago regarding rear leg IR and if we should always take all of the slop out of our rear hip... We've been bottoming out the rear hip and pulling against what is basically a hard stop. There is not a TON of tug-a-war going on with the rear leg IR. It's there, just not as much as there should be. We've still been getting snap and proper hip rotation, but I've always thought it should be better and faster (snappier). This could explain why my crew often gets a lot of pinwheel, but not enough merry-go-round.

While I'm bothered that I've possibly been missing a fundamental concept for so long, I'm very encouraged to insert this element into our workout. I think this might be a long lost peice of the puzzle for us.

God bless brother!

[BlueBloodBaseball]

Very thought provoking points. You touched on a topic that I brought up years ago regarding rear leg IR and if we should always take all of the slop out of our rear hip... We've been bottoming out the rear hip and pulling against what is basically a hard stop. There is not a TON of tug-a-war going on with the rear leg IR. It's there, just not as much as there should be. We've still been getting snap and proper hip rotation, but I've always thought it should be better and faster (snappier). This could explain why my crew often gets a lot of pinwheel, but not enough merry-go-round.

With so much emphasis on pulling back, I often see my hitters lose sight of the big picture... getting the bat to snap and turn through the ball.


Why do we pull back on the string of a bow? There has to be an equally great force pulling forward to get the arrow or the bat to shoot forward. So if all we do is pull back but never emphasize the turn forward, then all we have is slop.


good illustration of the tug-of-war and the leg winning out

[RayR]

Found a clip... See how closed up my kid gets?

That would be an example of using the front hip to coil. And if the front hip is coiling the front hip will want to uncoil.

[BlueBloodBaseball]

That would be an example of using the front hip to coil. And if the front hip is coiling the front hip will want to uncoil.

I agree with this.

[jryan15]

That would be an example of using the front hip to coil. And if the front hip is coiling the front hip will want to uncoil.

I see what you mean. I wouldn't say her front hip got coiled, but she probably did push from the front side. Not the best example. The point that I was making is that when I go on one leg and coil, I tend to take out all of the hip ROM and my belly button points towards the catcher.

That is why I was wondering how JS was coiled if his rear was straight and his BB was not pointing inward... I was missing the rear leg IR element. I'll have to make a demo to describe later.

[RayR]

I see what you mean. I wouldn't say her front hip got coiled, but she probably did push from the front side. Not the best example. The point that I was making is that when I go on one leg and coil, I tend to take out all of the hip ROM and my belly button points towards the catcher.

That is why I was wondering how JS was coiled if his rear was straight and his BB was not pointing inward... I was missing the rear leg IR element. I'll have to make a demo to describe later.

I get into pretty much the same stance as J and I can tell you I am coiled to the max but my BB is not rotated back and my front hip is neutral and out of the way. Rear ass cheek around rear leg. It's a very specific coil.

[jryan15]

With so much emphasis on pulling back, I often see my hitters lose sight of the big picture... getting the bat to snap and turn through the ball.


Why do we pull back on the string of a bow? There has to be an equally great force pulling forward to get the arrow or the bat to shoot forward. So if all we do is pull back but never emphasize the turn forward, then all we have is slop.


good illustration of the tug-of-war and the leg winning out

Good concept to talk through with the bow string. I do have to think more about it. What's the string, what's the arm pulling it back, what's the bow, etc?



I wouldn't say Baily has slop in her hip in this swing, and I'm certain that I don't have slop in the hip even when I'm not actively IR'ing my rear
leg while coiling. We are still pulling back like crazy in our lower backs even if our inner thigh muscle isn't stretching. We are pulling back against whatever bottoms out the ROM in our hip. I know it's the leg, but the angles probably get jacked up. We definitely load our leg and our rear foot wants to twist as it resists the pullback...

I think that we are losing the inner thigh stretch and it is costing us in two specific areas:

1. Rear leg not as snappy as it could be
2. More rearward tilt and posturing in the swing (maybe the lack if inner thigh changes the geometry a little) or the snappiness is missing so our posture isn't immediately corrected

I'm really encouraged with this...

[jryan15]

I get into pretty much the same stance as J and I can tell you I am coiled to the max but my BB is not rotated back and my front hip is neutral and out of the way. Rear ass cheek around rear leg. It's a very specific coil.

Oh I get it! I found an empty cube and tried it a couple minutes ago. It's the real deal. I feel much stronger that way.

To see what I was feeling before, do this:

Get in the same posture and coil, but don't fight it with the inner thigh. Your pelvis will turn back until you reach the end of range of your hip. Then, keep pulling back. You can still strech against it, but the rear leg isn't nearly as active (tug-a-war is weak).

Does this make sense?

[jryan15]

Way back when, I had questions about this part of the coil. Seems I never got on the right track for this element...

http://hittingillustrated.com/forum/...p?6446-jryan15

Sorry to hijack your thread garvan!

[BlueBloodBaseball]

Good concept to talk through with the bow string. I do have to think more about it. What's the string, what's the arm pulling it back, what's the bow, etc?

Idk if I need parts of the body to correspond with all the elements of the bow and arrow for it to make sense in my mind... I simply use the illustration to point out that the arrow only fires because there is resistance between two opposing forces.... my physics teacher says it's science

[jryan15]

Idk if I need parts of the body to correspond with all the elements of the bow and arrow for it to make sense in my mind... I simply use the illustration to point out that the arrow only fires because there is resistance between two opposing forces.... my physics teacher says it's science

Lol. I think that I'm somewhere in between... Like the bow and string, but my string was replaced by a steel cable so it didn't stretch... The bow still bent and the arrow shot, just not as far because the string didn't stretch a little too.

Another extreme example would be to use a really stiff bow that barely stretches. The only quantifiable stretch was in the string so the arrow didn't go as far.

Looking forward to taking some cuts tonight.

[RayR]

Oh I get it! I found an empty cube and tried it a couple minutes ago. It's the real deal. I feel much stronger that way.

To see what I was feeling before, do this:

Get in the same posture and coil, but don't fight it with the inner thigh. Your pelvis will turn back until you reach the end of range of your hip. Then, keep pulling back. You can still strech against it, but the rear leg isn't nearly as active (tug-a-war is weak).

Does this make sense?

When I try that my pelvis turns rearward. I cannot get the coil right. So, I think I understand what you were doing. The rear leg has to post up as you turn the rear ass cheek around it.

[garvancarver]

Sorry to hijack your thread garvan!

No problem! Good information, helping me think through some questions I had also. Hard part is keeping it simple enough to get a relatively body-unaware early-teen boy to do it.

[jryan15]

Took some cuts last night. The method resulted in a tighter leg snap. It was familiar to me so I know that I've been there before just probably not enough for it to become a key checkpoint in my process. Look forward to trying it with the kids.