Shoulder Rotation Equal Bat Drag????

[Shelby Richards]

Thank you. That completes the puzzle in my mind.

It was this continual reference to “hand torque” that was causing me to have difficulty understanding the concept of the “second engine”.

Since you likely will explain this to others, let me explain why the notion of hand torque was throwing a wrench into my understanding of the second-engine concept.

Picture the orange handle being turned with the top hand stacked above the bottom hand.

What happens is that the hands, wrists, forearms, and even the upper arm, all essentially ‘rotate’ together. When I trace this back to the source, I find that it is the lateral tilt of the shoulders.

I can understand why turning the orange handle, with the top hand placed on top & bottom hand place directly below it, would be called torque. In a very real sense the "orange handle" is being torqued.

However the hands, wrists, forearms, and top arm are all being rotated as a unit by the tilting of the shoulders. The source of this torque would appear to be the shoulders. So wouldn’t it be more appropriate to refer to this as “shoulder torque” than “hand torque”?

[Teacherman]

The source of the torque is the hands.....supported by the lateral tilt, triangle rotation, and hip turn.

Why do you leave out the supination and pronation of the forearms....which contain the muscles that turn the hands?

You agree that the top hand supinates. Since the bottom hand is also on the bat it pronates. Which leads to the "jut" of the lead elbow.

It is not just the lateral tilt.

I can laterally tilt or I can laterally tilt AND rotate the forearms. The latter brings the barrel around much quicker.

You seem to have an agenda to prove the hands do little to nothing.

In fact, the hands are the key to the entire system.

The swing thought should be...."turn the barrel with the hands". If it is, and if you swing aggressively, the rest of the body will "line up" to offer support.

If your swing thought is tilt the shoulders....or rotate the shoulders....or pull the knob....your bat will drag......because you are giving the body a different goal. You're telling it to rotate, or pull, or tilt. When doing that you aren't using the very things that actually hold on to the bat and have a direct connection to the barrel.

The distal controls the proximal.

[tom.guerry]

shelby -

The arms/forearms get active before the shoulders.

The "go" triggers the synched shoulder tilt (not turn),weight shift,hip firing,handle firing. This gives the rubberband a last quick adjustable stretch which then fires, controlled by timing and direction of bathead controlled by hands on handle.

The handle is already turning with a running start (actually controlling the running start which is winding the rubber band).

Go back to the STEVE/BARRY comparison and then look at other mlb clips to see what the action is like BEFORE the shoulders tilt/bat blurs in mlb. Notice how the bat is typically tipped/cocked then starts to untip/"float" with a synched upper/lower body running start. all prior to the blur.

Lots of crucial preparation when there is time for it.

[Teacherman]

Notice the barrel movement, created by the hands prior to "go". Prior to shoulder tilt.

In one swing he "goes". In the other swing he does not...therefore no shoulder tilt. Yet, the barrel still traveled in it's rearward arc for a couple of frames.