Another PCR Spokesperson Gets Out There On A Limb

[Teacherman]

Slapper,

Him losing you from the flock is a major irritation to him.

You aren't the first. And you won't be the last. He's paranoid about the "trend".

He will not address the swing differences....and if you pay attention....none of them do. 4x4 is the worst. ILoveMe just goes off into another of his "greater than thou" posts.

I'll make a prediction that RayR will rock the boat some more. He's starting to point things out that I'm sure he didn't learn at EH.com. I have inside info that jojab is doubting.

Finally....explain this one to me. This guy has to RUN.....no SPRINT.....away from any swing we've ever seen him take. Now, I don't claim to have the best swing in the world. But, I will claim that I demonstrate what I teach with it.....to the best this 53 yr old body can do.

And....why did we never hear that we shouldn't use his swing as a model when we were with him in Jonestown?

[GroundUp]

Tom, guess I got spanked pretty good today by "the Great One!" I didn't expect him to come after me with such ferocity. But, I guess he felt threatened and had to respond. Yeah, I thought Mark's "yes, but" post said it all. When they feel threatened, you get lots of Fog.

Mike

I'm afraid it had to come to this if you were going to advance your knowledge.

Note how he is now trying to beat the drum that the Hanson Principle is flawed.

Donny's first page of his presentation begins with a quote of the Hanson Principle.

You clearly stated that what he is teaching disagrees with the Hanson Principle.

You apparently were correct or he wouldn't be on such a campaign to get others not to apply the Hanson Principle.

Remember ... this coming from the same guy that earlier used the Hanson Principle as his trump card.

In time you'll find this event funny and be glad to be free of Steve. People need to be free to make decisions, and Steve feels the need to be controlling. The potential for a problem to occur was highly probable.

[GroundUp]

I love how he uses your first and last name, several times. Threatened indeed, working hard on revision.

Yup, that's how he operates. I suppose some are actually intimidated by this. The reality is that this mode of operation makes him look bad and untrustworthy.

[GroundUp]

Maya Culpa. Maya Culpa. I've been bad. Spank my hands. Rap my knucles.

I've been outed at bbf.....again. Don't know how but I'm done...again......

I was Steviebaseball....for about 2 days.

Believe it or not.....I made one post about reducing the number of links in the chain in order to quicken the swing......of course by saying that I "meant" the lateral tilting the shoulders to "connect" them to the hips so that the hips turn the entire unit, therefore no shoulder rotation...etc etc....

Guess what happened....I got a PM.......from ILoveMe. No shit. Here I am, conversing with ILoveMe by PM. I crack up everytime I think about it.

Anyway....he said he couldn't agree more with my comments about the "reduction of links" to quicken the swing. In fact, he said that comment was the smartest thing said in that thread up until that time.

HOW ABOUT THAT, Mel Allen. ILoveMe is agreeing with me.....calling me smart.

Of course....I know what HE meant. He meant tensing up the arms/shoulder complex...tensing up the torso/hips so you don't separate....reduce the links, and TURN LIKE HELL. But, I'm a newbie right?

So....acting like a newbie, I PM'd him back and asked how do you reduce the number of links....and he PM'd me back and said......no shit.....I'd have to "link" myself to a plane and fly to Houston and spend 3 days with him.

Before I could return the PM....I was booted.

P.S. I had told Swingbuilder about this....about me receiving a PM from ILoveMe. He laughed.....hard. We set a goal for me to "talk my way onto his website"....and if I was successful, Swingbuilder would fly to St. Louis and look over my shoulder as I conversed with ILoveMe over the net.

But......JakeP outed me.

Some good ole fashioned ornery fun.

Back to work.

Now that was a funny post.

How is it that they keep figuring out who you are?

Are they tracking your computer ID?

Maybe you could signup using a different computer?

Good discussions, kept civil, would be welcome.

[GroundUp]

And....why did we never hear that we shouldn't use his swing as a model when we were with him in Jonestown?

Look at it this way.

You begin operation by preaching the Hanson Principle.

Later you get called on the carpet and recognize that what you are teaching defies the Hanson Principle.

So you establish a campaign to tell everyone that you reinvented what you were teaching and that you are better than ever. You plug this story and see how it catches. You prepare to release a new DVD. Then a follower points out to you that your new material still defies the Hanson Principle.

Finally in dispair you go on a campaign to discredit the Hanson Prinicple.

Okay ... maybe this isn't what is going on. At least I hope not.

[Slapper23]

It IS very interesting that Steve does not hold up any of his swings as representative of his teaching. The very worst(or best, depending on your perspective) swing of Steve's to compare to the MLB pattern is his direct comparison/overlay of his and Bond's swings. I'm sure Steve would say he wasn't really trying to show a MLB swing, but only an aspect of the swing and how similiar it is to Bonds. There is always an excuse.

I did like Steve and got along well with him, but that was only when I agreed with him. Yes, he is controlling and somewhat paranoid. And he follows the same damn modus operandi as Nyman, i.e., any disagreement is crushed and public ridicule follows. I often told him that his "stuff" should stand on it's own merits and he shouldn't have to constantly run around on the net putting out fires.

Steve kicked me off his site a few months ago after a PM exchange between us. I told him I had no hard feelings and I wish him a lot of success, but I see things differently. And yeah, now I do feel free to express my honest opinions and not have to walk on eggshells. Steve was often particularly upset when I quoted Tom's hitting thoughts or if I said I agreed with Tom.

Oh well, I don't wish to make enemies. This isn't life or death stuff. But then again, I'm only capable of seeing what I see based upon my limited and flawed knowledge.

Mike

[GroundUp]

Steve, thanks again for the reply. On one point of agreement - I, Mike Kennedy, do not entirely agree with Nyman's definition of the high level swing, as defined by PCR. This may be hard for you to accept.

Also, let me, Mike Kennedy, clear up some confusion. In asking to compare your recent swings to MLB clips, I meant swings that I have not seen so far, and swings that you have improved through your recent swing experiments. I was very aware of your swing experiments before you booted me from your site for disagreeing. The nice thing about expressing a respectful, but dissenting OPINION away from your website is I, Mike Kennedy, can do so freely without fear of being muzzled. Other than that, I wish you nothing but the best.

This got me laughing out loud.

The message is pretty clear.

I guess you've decided not to be intimidated.

Good for you! I respect that.

[Slapper23]

Ha! Well, I had to respond with something, especially when called out (numerously) by name. I felt like "and I, Al Franken." Subtle sarcasm.

Mike

[Pronk]

More from RayR

There is lateral tilt where the shoulders tilt back to the catcher without being in the turn so to speak.

Then there is a tilted turn where (depending on camera angle) the shoulders look the same as a lateral tilt, but are engaged in rotating around the spine.

This is interesting because he seems to see two different things but hangs onto what more closely resembles PCR think.

[tom.guerry]

Yes there is not a tilted turn in MLB, only in PCR.

In MLB there is tilt/resist/connect with shoulders (Scap action) slaved to hands and turn of body/torso driven by hips ("spinal rotation").

Upper body resistance creates/controls cusp/adjustment, handle torque fires bathead and controls sequence/resistance.

Like 1 (PCR) vs 2 (MLB) plane patterns which are very very different as in golf.

tilt and turn, hands and hips/stretch and fire or tilted turn/brute force turn like heck.

The 1 plane PCR way does not work without spinning in baseball, so for hitting you have to compensate with spinhook/late batspeed/forcing early adjustment.

I'd prefer 2 plane/early batspeed/late adjustment.

[Teacherman]

Has it ever been more clear why only 750 or so play at the highest level.

You not only have to be able to do it.

But.....you have to be able to see and understand what they are doing.

And, only a few more than 750 can see that.

This is a shoulder thread, we are now venturing into the pelvic area

As the front heel drop he lowers his center of gravity (vertical load/ unweighting the body) this action pulls on his back arm. This is the early movement of the bat you may see. This is also the beginning of hip rotation. He blends vertically loading and rotation.

In the frame that the heel drops the scap action is also beginning to reverse.

The frame after the heel drops, scap action is in full reversal and bringing the shoulders and bat around.

In 2 frames, there is a tremendous amount going on and it is not about the hands.

That quote is in response to the tip/untip of the barrel in this clip. About 2 frames or so.



What will be the next excuse they use? Will they ever run out of them? Or....will they finally see the hands working.

[Pronk]

Here is Joof's suggestion to RayR on my David Wright clip. These guys are in the lab and trying stuff. I hope they try the hands. Everything it seems has to be explained by something from the pelvis to the shoulders.

Ray

I know you have been dealing with the group over at BBF on a thread that has been discussing adjustments to different pitch locations. Many over there insist that the adjustment involves a mid course correction with the hands. Fpdad and I for the longest have thought this adjustment was spinal in nature. Not being a bending at the waist as some suggest but the spine controlling the adjustment. The following clips I believe illustrates how the spine starts to adjust early by a gradual curvature of the spine until the bat is merged into the ball path. In other words the spine, as it gradually curves, makes an on the fly adjustment of the angle of the swing plane by changing the axis of rotation.


With the player on the left note how the torso curvature on his left hand side starts to develop in about frame three. Compare to the torso of the player on the right hitting the pitch up in the zone.

I first observed this with one of the kids I work after he learned to maintain a good VL during his swing.

Nyman has an avatar demonstration that illustrates this point.

[Teacherman]

Where was this posted?

That curvature of the spine is not so wrong if I'm reading him right. It's the lateral tilt. The spine bends rearward.....as it created the bypass. The hips will project forward as it does this.

However, the angle of the lateral tilt conforms to the swivel angle, IMO....the angle the hands will swivel the bat....therefore the angle of the diagonal swing plane. High pitch....flat angle of the swivel. Low pitch....steep angle of the swivel.

So...I agree....with joof....and Tom....the lateral tilt is very involved in setting the swing plane.

But, doing that without the hands is simply ridiculous bat drag.