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Good ole RayR
Now that's a good'n.
The shoulders and hips are turning together , but are rotating independently of eachother.
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He took note of the "front side stretch".
Then he tried to ascribe it to shoulder turn, not shoulder tilt.
If you turn the shoulders it will not give you the stretch with cusp/last quick stretch. It won't give you a controllable stretch. You will have to commit early. You will pull off the ball if you guess wrong and have to disconnect,etc. AKA PCR/SPINHOOK/PCRW.
They're still looking for the revision that can cover their butt. Sending out the minions for the trial balloon.
Nyman's going with "complexity". That's perfect for cranking up the fog machine. he needs a fog machine on steroids.
Looks like fofofo's taking a little vacation and JJA too.
They'll be back !!!!! -
More from Shep (RayR) (no offense to our Shep)
OK, so what do you think of the idea that these hitters are rotating the shoulders indendently of the hips/torso? Yes, they are both turning, but do the shoulders have the ability to rotate kind of how the moon orbits the earth as it orbits the sun?Comment
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WHOAAAAAA.....Nelly.
Teacherman is pulling up on ole RayR. And, I betcha he starts asking some tough questions at EH.com soon.......if he hasn't already.
His latest...
Can you say "lateral tilt", RayR? Can you say handle torque, RayR?Can you move your left shoulder back as you move your right shoulder forward without moving the torso? It only has to be a little.
If you can, this is what I am talking about. And this movement is how the bat gets moving instantly. This action displaces the knob and gets the bat on plane.
Look at this clip:
I'm pulling for ya Ray?
Wouldn't that be a steal.
Sick 'em boys. Get Ray over here.
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TO quote Howard Johnson regarding Gabby Johnson from BLAZING SADDLES, this is one of the finest examples of frontier gibberish from the posse/pseudoscientists, joof and fpdad:
"We, fpdad and I, feel that separation is reactive in nature - a result of initiating the swing properly via pelvic action coupled with requisite body posture. Occuring downstream in a ballistic sequence it is not a direct teach but results(reactive in nature) from initiating the swing properly(initial condition of a chaotic/ballistic sequence)."
Yeah it's a reactive thinggy, that's it !!!!Comment
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From Setpro days weren't they the guys always inventing. You need to jump in the fray once in a while. 3 days of bread and water is nothing.Originally posted by tom.guerry View PostComment
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Correction
Hey - I resemble that remark!Originally posted by Teacherman View Post That is Shemp from the Stooges.
http://www.threestooges.com/bios/bios.asp?intStoogeID=4Last edited by Shep; 10-28-2008, 08:47 AM.Comment
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Stevie had to jump in there after the ridiculous joof comment.
Now he is sucking up to boardy and trying to associte himself again with Nyman/Stock.
The fog machine is cranking up and the snipe hunt is on for the objective/functional swing description.
What is so hard to understand about the shoulders action being mainly scap action that resists turning by lateral tilt ?
If you instead try the TURNING of the scaps as with the propsed Englishbey rapid horizontal pinch/unpinch of the back scap, tou only interfere with the resistance that gives the quick torso/trunk stretch and fire.
Why is it so hard to understand that the shoulders tilt and connect rather than turn ?
Why is it hard to understand as Clif says, that they hold the load ?
Not just around the corner, but all the way to contact, turned BY, not TURNING, the untwisting of a well coiled torso.
Ray started to get at it with the old shoulders rotate in different plane, but they resist by more than out of plane rotation, they tilt.
Tilting is elevation/lowering of scaps, not rotation/turning of scaps.
In GOLF, you can make the rotation of the shoulders and hips in different planes work by creating separation by bending way over and creating HUGE shoulder to hip separation/xfactor by focussing on turning the club in the shoulder plane. This is the 1 plane golf swing where the club swings around the body in the shoulder plane as the body turns.
This does NOT permit the quickness or late adjustability of the 2 plane type swing where the shoulder action is slaved to arms and hands. That swing has less and later separation that is controllable/adjustable to create an optimally loing contact zone.
Stevie also does not understand "early batspeed". it isn;y just an efficent kinetic link, it requires the body to also turn back to improve read time and ability to line up the contact zone for a lowand away pitch.
Nothing in Stevie's stuff about how the mlb swing has early batspeed and late adjustability/how "contact zone" is created and adjusted and how timing of stretch and fire is accomplished by scap Resistance/bypass.
Stevie is on the objective/functional snipe hunt AND describing things objectively and functionally wrong.
That can't be good.Comment
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Hansen has to give up his own rule to try to justify the evntual revisionism.
We can only see what we can see.
Cults are fun !!!!Comment
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from eteamz:
"matching the swing plane with the incoming arc of the pitch"
"Please explain how a hitter does this on a low and away, or a low and inside fastball in the strike zone.
"I'll save you the answer. A hitter can't swing in the plane of these pitches. He would have to be on his knees to do so. A hitter swings parallel to his shoulders. His shoulders are tilted to make contact with the best contact with the pitch. Look at the swing of any major leaguer."
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Guess Ted Williams was wrong. Like the PCR posse say, Ted's swing has been obsoleted by the Nyman PCRW guidelines.Comment
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Tom, guess I got spanked pretty good today by "the Great One!" I didn't expect him to come after me with such ferocity. But, I guess he felt threatened and had to respond. Yeah, I thought Mark's "yes, but" post said it all. When they feel threatened, you get lots of Fog.
MikeComment
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I love how he uses your first and last name, several times. Threatened indeed, working hard on revision.Originally posted by Slapper23 View PostComment
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Oh yeah, it was definitely a major calling out.
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Nice work Mike.
You've got the fog machine on steroids cranked up like Foghorm Leghorn.
I liked the :
"Having said this I will say that in terms of the "MLB pattern",that if one can "rotate into footplant",ie starting the rotation and unloading of the swing by "opening the rotaion from the backside while keeping the front side RELATIVELY CLOSED."
Yeah, that's it,
And we can only see what we can see.Comment
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Maya Culpa. Maya Culpa. I've been bad. Spank my hands. Rap my knucles.
I've been outed at bbf.....again. Don't know how but I'm done...again......
I was Steviebaseball....for about 2 days.
Believe it or not.....I made one post about reducing the number of links in the chain in order to quicken the swing......of course by saying that I "meant" the lateral tilting the shoulders to "connect" them to the hips so that the hips turn the entire unit, therefore no shoulder rotation...etc etc....
Guess what happened....I got a PM.......from ILoveMe. No shit. Here I am, conversing with ILoveMe by PM. I crack up everytime I think about it.
Anyway....he said he couldn't agree more with my comments about the "reduction of links" to quicken the swing. In fact, he said that comment was the smartest thing said in that thread up until that time.
HOW ABOUT THAT, Mel Allen. ILoveMe is agreeing with me.....calling me smart.
Of course....I know what HE meant. He meant tensing up the arms/shoulder complex...tensing up the torso/hips so you don't separate....reduce the links, and TURN LIKE HELL. But, I'm a newbie right?
So....acting like a newbie, I PM'd him back and asked how do you reduce the number of links....and he PM'd me back and said......no shit.....I'd have to "link" myself to a plane and fly to Houston and spend 3 days with him.
Before I could return the PM....I was booted.
P.S. I had told Swingbuilder about this....about me receiving a PM from ILoveMe. He laughed.....hard. We set a goal for me to "talk my way onto his website"....and if I was successful, Swingbuilder would fly to St. Louis and look over my shoulder as I conversed with ILoveMe over the net.
But......JakeP outed me.
Some good ole fashioned ornery fun.
Back to work.Comment
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