The Deep Whoosh

[Teacherman]

I have long argued the key ingredient of a whip in a baseball swing is a sudden change in direction. I still believe that. The barrel going rearward initially and then suddenly yanked forward by the end of the 'tug of war' creates the whip.

But, I'm going to add a second key ingredient.....and that is the stop.....the endpoint. If there is no stop, there is no whip. If there is no stop there is no crack.

So, what is the stop in the high level pattern? Something must stop forward movement to get the barrel to arc/whip to contact. IMO, that stop is the lead arm pronation.....the jut.

Since Atlanta I've been studying the reasoning behind the success of the snap/stop swings. I have been leaning toward the fact that there must be a stop for the barrel to whip around. There must be a 'dog on the end of the leash' effect. A sudden change of direction at launch is critical.....but you still don't get a whip....a crack....without a stop. The barrel doesn't suddenly arc if there isn't a stop. It just slides forward until you reach the end of your arms. If that is your stop, that puts the arc 'out front'....and creates a long swing.

After the Carolina clinic, I'm convinced that the stop is the jut. And, I'm convinced that most don't do that. I'm convinced that the swing must be over 'at jut' from an energy production standpoint. And that you must get to 'jut' quickly....immediately.....suddenly. As in....the goal is to jut. And jut NOW. The 'jut' creates the autopilot. Up until jut....you are applying energy....and applying it quite suddenly. Over just two frames or so. After jut you are on autopilot. The jut is the stop that the barrel whips around. And that also explains how to get your swing over in two frames. The jut is what allows you to hit 'in a phone booth'. The jut eliminates the arms. The jut recruits the middle. The jut...or the goal to jut....meters the weight shift.

And.....the jut.....IS....CREATES.....swing quickness. The jut removes the slop. It eliminates what most kids do......and that is build time into their swing to match the speed of the pitch. Instead of waiting and waiting and waiting and being absolutely as quick as they can in bp.....they build a swing length to match pitch speed length. Which isn't very fast in bp. And then in games they have too much length to deal with game speed and movement. The 'jut' in bp.....waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.....then suddenly.....JUT....JUT NOW.....is critical to building a high level swing.

The lead arm pronation action is as critical to sending the barrel rearward as the rear arm's supination. You can supinate....and not pronate.....and you have no stop.

This is what I continually see in the clips of the kids. They do their best to send the barrel rearward with their top hand....with their swivel. BUT....their lead arm does not pronate/jut to created the stop. What you end up with, with this technique, is the typical arm pull with late torque. The hands move forward too soon....the lead arm pulls....because there is no stop....and the swivel turns into hammer because of it.....and the barrel arcs but not until you've reached the limit of the arms reach. This of course puts the whoosh out front....instead of behind.

The jut is critical to getting the whoosh behind you. It is critical to hitting the ball deep in the zone. It is critical to creating a tight swivel....that can then be turned 'down one of the lines'.

[MasterBrewer]

Teach,

Great post. It makes so much sense. Thanks.

[tom.guerry]

another hall of fame post !

[GroundUp]

Is there anything from Cal Ripken's description that we can use?

Cal Ripken - Whip

[swingbuilder]

Jut is contact. Good RE emphasis of jut. There is no arms in jut. To have jut you must have HPP. You must have the trifecta.

What I feel gets over looked is that everyone preaches "Get Inside the Ball". With a HPP and the trifecta you are already inside the ball before you swing. To create the whip in conjunction with jut you have to be inside the ball. But the issue is EVERY HITTER thinks to get inside the ball he/ she must extend their arms towards the inside portion of the ball to be "Inside the Ball".

Getting "Inside the ball" is Jut. Getting whip is jut. The 2 engine system has you already setup inside the ball. Don't PUSH the hands with the arms to get inside the ball!

[GroundUp]

Interesting you write this SB.

When you coached the kids about having a tight HPP to hit inside pitches fair (Tight HPP), I went out and tried duplicating hitting inside pitches with an emphasis on a tight HPP. It ended up working quite well ... to the point of surprising me. All I needed to do was concentrate on a tight HPP.

This weekend I had some kids work on a tight HPP to hit inside pitches. Worked for them as well.

Gone is the concept of "hitting inside the ball". It's been replaced with .... "tight Hand Pivot Point".

[Teacherman]

Well stated. I was impressed with the D1 player I worked with this weekend. His learning reinforces what Builder just stated.

Once he got the swive/jut....he commented several times about how the barrel just 'comes around' on its own....how it is 'released'....instead of swung....or pushed.

To drive the ball oppo.....you must have a tight HPP. If you don't you can't drive the ball. You can hit some flares.....but you can't drive the ball.

And.....as he attacked from the diagonal angle (right hander attacking by turning the barrel in a diagonal swing plane in the direction of....along a line on the ground toward.....the 2B....a lefty would attack along a line from the SS).....as he turned the barrel with it aimed in that direction....he was automatically inside the ball. And the great news was.....if he attacked from that angle....as if to drive a ball oppo....he could very suddenly turn it with proper one legged hip/leg action, to deal with the inside pitch AND KEEP IT FAIR.

IMO.....all workouts of someone who gets this stuff....should start with driving the ball oppo. Launch the swing down the line to the 2B (righty) AND release it down that line. To drive the ball oppo....you will need a tight....very tight HPP. Then....when you've got as tight of a HPP as you can create.....it is quite simple to just redirect it's direction for the ball down central or the ball inside.

However.....without first training the HPP with oppo drives.....it is easy to get too army....to attack down central and the inside pitch....too far out front. And they get hooked foul. But our experience this weekend showed that adjusting a super tight hand pivot point....one trained first with opposite field driven balls.....was easily adjusted for the other pitches and those balls were kept fair.

[swingbuilder]

It coincides with Tman's whoosh thoughts associated with jut. The tighter the HPP the quicker the jut. The quicker the jut the better the whip.

Most teach get the hands inside the inside pitch...result = FOULBALLS.

Because they extend the hands inside the ball WITH THE ARMS.

[my3boys]

In reality, isn't jut is just prior to contact? If jut is the endpoint that whips the barrel to contact.. then it has to happen before. Maybe in the hi level swing you 'feel' it at contact, or could think of it that way.

With the rhpp and hpp point synced with overlap.. with jut the end point, the resulting whip that sends the barrel on autopilot is so instantaneous...I guess it is contact..

[tom.guerry]

I do not like the grip in the fingers for whip type idea (Ripken).

It conflicts with the way you use the hands separately to turn the handle.

totally different action/feel.

I like Williams power push, top hand as power hand,slight upswing at contact with top hand wrist ideally unbroken (bent back to elbow/"set"/bent/dorsiflexed).

lead/front wrist cocks and uncocks (ABducts.ADducts, plane 90 degrees from top hand wrist set/extension - dorsiflexion/plantar flexion). back wrist/top hand wrist "sets". The it stays set or gets palmup extension, but no roll until after contact.

the lead elbow "JUT" finishes the stretch and fire as you launch and spend, then you are on autopilot.

THE GO trifecta has a microsequence which is in my opinion distal to proximal, first via the forearms (with bicep pinch and vertical forearm and top wrist "set") then elbow triangle rotation,then shoulder tilt (untilt from front shoulder down and in position).

the forearm/second engine action resists the fires when tug of war is lost for the quick reversal that is whip.

While the lead arm juts, the back hip thrusts. and the bathead whips.

[LRS]

BUMPing THIS !!!!!!!!!

Why is THE THREAD OF THE MONTH sitting idle on pg 2 with only 150 views ?

[mightylakers]

Why is THE THREAD OF THE MONTH sitting idle on pg 2 with only 150 views ?

We just want to keep it as the best kept secret

Mini has been secretly refining this jut process and getting more and more comfortable with it now.

[1chapterahead]

Very important thread right here, and ties in nicely with the rebuttal thread. Getting the whoosh while doing stop swings is a key indicator of early bat-speed... If you get whoosh while doing stop swings, it's deep.

[YHF]

After working with my sons and watching the other kids posted on this site, I think the direction of this thread may be off a little.

When we were in Atlanta, I told Richard and SB that I saw most of the kids show the triangle to the catcher, but they ended up pulling and never showed the triangle to the pitcher.

To me it's not a 'technique' problem regarding the triangle/tilt/jut. I think it's a 'power creation' issue. Until the kids learn how to generate power from the rear hip and the overlap, they may continue to tilt to load, but they'll pull/push and will not show the triangle to the pitcher.

I started my kids with the HPP and they're doing pretty well in drills maintaining the triangle, but their only really good swings hitting live pitching are when they use the RHPP and get the overlap. Then it feels 'effortless' to them. They don't feel they're using their arms/shoulders.

Perhaps the point I'm making is already 'understood' by the participants here and if so then keep moving forward.

Jon

[powertoallfields]

After working with my sons and watching the other kids posted on this site, I think the direction of this thread may be off a little.

When we were in Atlanta, I told Richard and SB that I saw most of the kids show the triangle to the catcher, but they ended up pulling and never showed the triangle to the pitcher.

To me it's not a 'technique' problem regarding the triangle/tilt/jut. I think it's a 'power creation' issue. Until the kids learn how to generate power from the rear hip and the overlap, they may continue to tilt to load, but they'll pull/push and will not show the triangle to the pitcher.

I started my kids with the HPP and they're doing pretty well in drills maintaining the triangle, but their only really good swings hitting live pitching are when they use the RHPP and get the overlap. Then it feels 'effortless' to them. They don't feel they're using their arms/shoulders.

Perhaps the point I'm making is already 'understood' by the participants here and if so then keep moving forward.

Jon

You're absolutely right. They can make the whoosh deep in the IB drills because the bat is light and they are one legged, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. Without overlap and balanced stretch (I'm going to keep using it until Mud gives me the right word) around the RHPP, they can't whip, because the rear hip can't pull, even if the hands are behind the RHPP, they have to push or pull with the arms. You can make all the right moves, but if their is slack in the system, IT WILL NOT WORK!