What Is Staying Back....

[Teacherman]

Well....it clearly isn't this....



This hitter suffers from both hip slide and barrel slide.

And both come about from a 'need'......a need to 'get going'....a need to break inertia.

I see little to no resistance being used. You could say his lead leg block provides resistance.....but that is WAY late....and not nearly explosive enough. It is slow developing....and offers no mechanical advantage. It requires an amount of forward movement not seen in most high level hitters.

Something rarely talked about....although Hiddengem and I have spoken about it on a couple of occasions.....is the 'invisible' work. The work that takes place before movement is seen. The lag time between the mind sending the signal until movement is seen.

There is a neurological lag....the time it takes the signal to cause action. And there is a muscle contaction lag....the time it takes the muscles to break inertia before the bones actually move.

How long is this lag?
How do hitters deal with it?
Are their substitutes?
Is there an 'invisible' running start?

Well, as a starting point....think of pushing a car. Great effort must be given to move a car. But, it can be done. And, a great effort is given LONG before the car moves. I'm not a scientist....but I believe that is called breaking inertia. All scientists speak up and correct this at any time you see fit.

Something similar happens in hitting. While the 'load' weighs far less....only about two pounds....there are time restraints that make it important to move this two pound object quickly. Normally there aren't time restraints on when the car moves. You can position yourself.....to gain leverage.....and push and push and push.....and it will move.....when you push enough to break the inertia. It will happen....you want it to happen sooner than later....but once it starts to move....it is pretty simple to keep it moving assuming you dont' face a hill or an object. But....there was quite a length of time where 'work' was being done before the bones of the pusher moved.

Hitting has a two pound object that must be moved....and moved suddenly. And, there is somewhat of a directional issue....meaning the object has to be directed to a specific spot....where it will intersect the ball.

My brain, operating from a 'feel' perspective, tells me that if you use forward momentum as your inertia breaker....whether that be with the hands/arms....'down through the nipple'....or with the lower body....'straightline push'.....you are compromising your ability to square bat and ball.

IMO, what is taking place in the high level pattern, is a process of using resistance....to create an 'inertia lag'.....a time where energy is actually being applied....muscles are actually contracting....without bone movement.....that allows an invisible running start....before the visible running start.....and that allows a 'start' without a 'go'.....which is instrumental in getting the two engines to align....to sync.....that then leads to a sudden unleashing of the bat.

I've used this silly analogy before....but loading the forefinger against the thumb to shoot a marble across the floor....creates a far superior result than just pushing with the forefinger without a thumb load. The finger starts early....and is held up....by the resistance of the thumb.....an invisible running start....that no one would question exists. And when the thumb 'gives'....the forefinger fires forward with great force.

The coil of the lower body......which is a rotational move.....a 'negative' rotational move.....a load.....which is usually accompanied by an inward turn of the lead knee......is the 'thumb'...against which the push of the rear hip and leg (the forefinger) occurs. This occurs on/over one leg. The lead leg is either off the ground or unweighted. Which is an important aspect to how and where the resistance is felt......in the rear hip pivot point. IF the lead leg is weighted.....you won't have a rear hip pivot point. The lead leg with be 'in the way'....and it will compromise your ability to unload in the direction it needs to be unloaded. This push is of the rear hip and leg is not a straighline push. This push is a rotational push.....in that it is a combined move of the rear leg and hip......a hip thrust type action.....centered in the rear hip joint....which creates the rear hip pivot point. The leg's push is not forward as much as it is upward.....upward into the hip socket.....upward without corresponding bone movement upward.....unless the pitch calls for it. The upward push also occurs against the 'sit'.....more resistance.....of the pelvis on the ball of the femur. The 'action' of the lower body is completely in the rear hip. By that I mean the goal, the signal, is to move the rear hip around the ball of the femur with a directional component which is pitch dependent. And, I guess a main purpose of this post....is to explain that there is rotation going on before it is visible. The lower body unloads completely rotationally.....it unloads with rotation in the rear hip....as the rear leg pushes upward....while the lead foot is off the ground and/or unweighted.....and it is this unload that shifts the weight. Any shift of weight before this unload of the rear hip.....compromises power and quickness.

One-legged hitting.

If one agrees that the lower body loads with coil....then you must believe that the unload is uncoil.....not a straightline push. Why would you coil to just bleed it open with a straightline push. That makes no sense. You load so as to unload. Your load is the reverse action of your unload. Your unload is NOT an action different from your load.

Here are several clips of Bonds. In some, the hip 'up and through' is obvious. In some, it is not. I maintain the rear hip and leg 'action' is the same in all the clips.....it is a rotational unload of the rear hip pivot point.....which started with resistance.....with an 'invisible running start'.....which is metered into a visible running start....which leads to the sudden unload.....and then and only then....after the swing launch....does the lead leg block come into play.

Bonds

So.....back to the title of the thread....."What Is Staying Back"

Staying back is the invisible running start. Staying back is the thumb load. It is not just standing there waiting to do something.....even though no movement may be taking place. Important stuff is being done without being 'seen'.

Moving forward with unrestricted linear momentum, no resistance, like in Macias, IMO, doesn't happen in the high level swing. I believe what you see is really a rotational unload.....that can't be seen....because the bones aren't moving yet.....because of the resistance the hitter has created.

Some of you have posted a clip of Arod....or Pujols....to counter my belief that the rear hip/leg unload is completely rotational. You have shown their heads moving forward. That is hard to deny. And I don't have an explanation for why two great hitters do something different than the rest....



But.....I do want to point out that both of their lead knees are counterrotated more so than many other hitters.....and this provides greater resistance for them to start the 'invisible running start' against. And they allow some forward momentum to take place, while maintaining this resistance. I maintain that forward momentum is part of their rotational unload.....meaning the action in the rear hip....is rotational....but the resistance of the lead knee keeps it from happening....and forward momentum results. And when that lead knee 'gives'....there is sudden rotation....much more sudden than would occur if the 'invisible running start' was linear. What they are doing is much like pitchers do. Even though they drift forward more than the others.....they maintain that lead knee resistance.....which allows them to maintain the rear hip load.....and to launch the swing as 'one move'.

And this use of resistance.....allowing both the invisible running start.....and the visible running start.....is how hitters not only unload so suddenly.....but it is how they learn to adjust to pitch speeds.

[Teacherman]

The upper body also works in a similar way....with resistance. When the top hand pronates....to load the hands....it creates an unload pattern of the reverse....supination. And this supination occurs against the 'forward' or 'tipped' weight of the barrel. This allows an 'invisible running start' of the supination.....which is the unload of the hands.

Posada demonstrates barrel resistacne.



"GO" is several frames after 'start'. As you can see when comparing the side by side clip. There was a running start. In this case very visible....but it started with a few fractions of a second of 'invisible running start' as it broke inertia. Not a lot....because the barrel doesn't weight much. But, it is there.

And this 'invisible running start' allows the hitter to 'feel' the unload before the unload.....before any bones move. Muscles are contacting.....there is an early start....but bones aren't moving until he wants them to.

And, IMO, a large reason why many of you can't 'get' the hand and forearm stuff.....is because you either never load the hands/forearms....and just load the arms/scaps......OR......equally bad......try to load them after you've loaded the arms or scaps. The hands/forearms must load first. And in this regard....what some call the scap load is actually part of the unload....especially the hand unload.

Both the upper body and lower body resistance provide the mechanism for timing the syncing of the two engines.....which creates the suddenness of the unload....the cusp....and it creates the ability to adjust to pitch speeds....which absolutely requires a start without a 'go'. A running start accompanied with a sudden launch.

[tom.guerry]

This is the true value of this site

What does it feel like when you take hacks in the pattern ?

Take some hacks and see.

Take some hacks and see if you can get the same feel.

Take some hacks and see how the feel compares to the look and to the result.

Repeat.

When necessary, if not progressing reasonably (don't fall for the infinite feel bad/hard work excuse) make sure something is not producing an insurmountable conflict with the underlying science. This is tricky.

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I think the front leg resist then go is controlled by the upper body telling the lower body to synch and by the lower body being receptive to this.

The upper body/back arm internal rotation/initial "TIP" of bathead up or past vertical triggers the hip cok/neg move which then continues upward as handcock and positive move/carry while hip cock lets you stay loaded in the back hip as the bat tips more forward/around toward pitcher.

Then you usually have to start rubberbandwinding/untipping BEFORE you have read much pitch info which is why you have to create a window of time during which you have a running start and can get going quickly or you can delay/sit more to meter/save some momentum for a shift at GO.

In the coil/rubberbandwinding, the untipping of the bat turns the bat at the handle/second center which creates resistance/reactive forces that keep the hands back.
At the same time the arm action that is moving the elbows during this time encourages synch of the legs, especially slotting action of back arm synching with opening of the front leg. Grip and forearm positioning have to be ready to permit plenty of bak forearm supination and front forearm pronation.

This synched back arm/front leg action while untipping (untipping can be near invisible or obvious) is what gets the front leg to resist right (being able to develop firm front side) while it is getting open so it will be out of the way or move out of the way the right way at GO and not gum up the back hip action.

Keeping the front shoulder in there requires internal rotation of the lead arm, same as in overhand throw. This entire sequence and synch is very similar in overhand throw up until this point, the big differences being that it is a two sided alternating rhythm and you are preparing to throw the barrell by turning the handle with the hands and forearms, not preparing to lay back/externally rotate the back arm more.

At GO, the muscle actions ARE/have been already underway with minimal actual displacement/motion of bones, most obviously seen as what is going on with the untipping of the bat, no BLUR until after the GO has had time and with the GO still being able to be interrupted/check swing after shoulder tilt and back hip fire and beginning of triangle rotation.

At GO the back hip unloads rotationally up and out jump started by a slight/final shift of the momentum FORWARD/resisting pulling out/following the front leg/hip with legs thrusting up.

This shift is when the cusp is created and ready to reverse driven by back hip while the hip shift and lateral shoulder tilt and triangle rotation all have the bat firing to accept the cusp energy.

There is a HUGE amount of drag to be overcome in this swing, for example at the front elbow which can not lose extension and the wrist hinge which must be prevented from narrowing too much.

The plus side of this is that the forearms can check the swing very late assisted by the weight/inertia of the bat which is how everything else can fire without forcing bathead out over the plate enough to get rung up.

[tom.guerry]

Richard's point about holding the scap is KEY.

This is a huge difference from PCR and BM theory. both os these think in some or most cases, the back scap unpinches before contact to assist in getting to utside ball and/or in throwing top hand late.

While the scaps DO unpinch and unload in the overhand throw, they do NOT in the mlb hitting without DEceleration which screws up timing and contact and is undesirable. The front scap can pinch for inside to hook handpath or can stay neutral after shoulder tilt. The back scap stays up more or less with shoulder tilt for high vs low, but the scaps do NOT unpinch until contact.

The overhand throw loading sequence of flatbed/merrygoround is similar to MLB swing up to a point/up until about go, but then the actual GO/THROW is very different.

In the overhand throw you fires the hips with the GO which boosts the merrygoround which continues laying back/externally rotating the back arm to form an arm loop, then the front foot bears weight and the weight shifta back to front as the scaps UNload/UNpinch which transforms the merrygoround to ferriswheel, finishes laying back the arm/loop formation, finishes arching the spine which then bows and fires the arm loop as the weight shft gets you up and over the front leg.

flatbed,merrygorund,ferriswheel of torso

bow-arch-bow of spine firing arm loop.

The mlb hitting pattern is just bow-arch of the spine.

the weight shift is used to arch the spine and fire the merrygoround.

the torso action has flatbed (forward momentum) and ferris wheel (lateral tilt) with arm/forearm action that throws the bathead when the merrygoround fires with weight going back to center and arching the lower spine.

scaps stay loaded/connect to torso with no unpinching before bathead hits escape velocity at contact