Back hip rise in the rotation.

[swingbuilder]

Do you see back hip rise in Gem's swing? What causes that hip rise?

[Teacherman]

In his swing I believe it's the front leg block.

[tom.guerry]

Builder -

what looks funny in this swing is that the back elbow starts slotting before the front leg turns open so the rubberbandwinding doesn't start well. This means that back to front momentum continues which is a minor degree of what yeager call pushing while blocking. The legs scissor too much back to front instead of supporting good hip twist. What is happening is that the hips are not accelerating/decelerating and giving up energy as completely/segmentally as they could.Instead the hips turn but also continue going forward and up onto the front leg, wasted energy pushing hips forward.

Compare Pujols for example.

[swingbuilder]

ok, what causes Chippers hip rise into rotation

[Teacherman]

His one point stance. His proper use of his rear hip joint pivot point and his rear leg push. All in the direction it needs to be to drive that pitch in that location.

[tom.guerry]

If you look at Chipper from the side, you will see the hips go up and stay back rather than keep going forward over the front leg as in GEM's case.

Sort of like a MININ-lunge of the hips, but keeping the head back. STill a waste of energy.

As for cause and effect, I would trace it (of course) to poor upper body resistance so you are not getting good enough twist/coil/rubber band winding.

IF you think of the resistance being first top hand then bottom hand then shoulder tilt, the top hands is caving in early so the front leg and hips go without being shaped/controled by resistance and they sway more than twist.

Good upper body rubberband winding is what has to happen to set things up so that there is good segmental acceleration/deceleration and no "push while block:

Yeager describes:

back leg load, back leg push, front side block and front side push and the importance of not pushing while blocking.

You have to focus on upper body being in charge of this to understand how to segment the swing and not push while blocking.

Richard's 2 pivot model works well for the overall understanding, including the lower body throw/catch/rotate type description.

[Teacherman]

Maybe this video will help you understand.

I don't see HG doing this.....but Chipper does.



The bow/arch is how Chipper does it. HG does it by scissoring the legs.

The bow/arch helps you shift the weight and stay behind it.

[swingbuilder]

Do me a favor. Put some clips up of Jamey Carroll and Arron Miles and Chase Utley and any other 2bman in the big leagues and lets see what their hip does and lets also see if that properly blur the bat to the catcher rearward.

I also think the rearward movement of the bat you describe needs to be better illustrated. SHOWN and isolated. Can you make clips of "just" the rearward movement of the barrel?

[Teacherman]

I don't have time to illustrate on the clip....I will later....but watch the tip of the barrel. Stare at it. Over and over and over. Get a feel for what it does, when, and how quickly it does it.

What is it's first movement?

Then, stare at his handset.

What do they do?

Do you see the "lead elbow into the swing plane move"? Or do you see a pivot point around the hands? I see a sudden circular start of the barrel around the hands. The rear elbow does move down.....but not to move the lead elbow up into the plane first. I do not see a set the plane then swing move. I just see a swing.

How do they stay there and do that?

What must the hands do to create that?

What leverage does he create in his handset so that the first thing the barrel does is to go rearward?

IMO, there is only one answer......forearm rotation.

I will try to create a close up clip of forearm rotation. That would help.

I believe you can see a "snap the pole" movement in Utley. While his bat angle is not vertical like the pole would be....it is more tilted......the concept is almost identical.

The forearms are the "movers" of the "snap the pole" concept. Create that leveraged, loaded feeling in your forearms.....then snap the pole. You will instantly see/feel how the body prepares to help that movement.

[Teacherman]

Do not misinterpret the rear elbow. In the middle clip, it is in slow motion. It gives the appearance that the rear elbow slots first. It will move. But notice how it does nothing to the barrel. That is just part of the body's prep to torque the handle at "go". Notice no plane adjustment results from it. He simply is "finding" leverage to torque the handle.

And when he torques it it flys rearward. Degree of "rearward" varies with pitch location. On a low pitch the arc is more diagonal than on a high pitch. However, on ALL pitches......the barrel arcs rearward as a result of handle torque....it creates a "C" it does not get pulled linearly by the knob so as to fly off the merry go round.

Notice how long his hands stay at his armpit. Notice how far the barrel travels before the shoulders turn and the hands go forward. This is how they do that. They torque the barrel into a circle. The direction and weight of the barrel keeps the hands right where they need to stay.

[Teacherman]

Do the same exercise while staring at Aaron Miles.



Can you "feel" his two pivot points. The rear hip and the hands?

Can you "feel" his hands create the barrel arc with torque?

Can you "feel" them blend into one move....at "go"?

Miles, being a smaller guy, does all the above AND it appears to be a goal of his to "swing in the path of the shoulders".

He is a tweener in that he doesn't overlap much...he doesn't use the bow/arch move well....



Notice Bonds and Utley "overlap" their torso. They come out of their bow and arch. They use that to create more power. That creates a path for the rear hip to come up and through. A power move. Miles stays in his bow. Notice how level Miles rear hip stays.

...but he does torque the barrel rearward with his hands. This keeps them at the armpit where they need to be before the shoulders turn and open the hands to fly into the swing path. This costs him power big time.....but that may be the best course of action for him due to his size. I'm not totally sold on that....but I can understand that decision making. IMO, Miles swing is marginally acceptable. Very close to wrong. But, right enough to play.

HG shows the ability to hit with power while doing it wrong. What power would you muster if you did it right? If I were you, and if I were attempting to change, I would swing like Utley/Bonds....not Miles. I believe .300 and 15-20 HR's is in your future.

Allowing the hands to fly off too early, whether by pushing them forward or by using the lead arm in the swing plane move....which means the shoulders have to fly open, relocating the hands so they can push.....is a flaw. It will force "out front" contact....meaning you have less time to read and execute...you have to start earlier to get "out fornt"....and it does not lead to proper squaring of bat and ball within the "arc" of the swing. And you constantly fight pulling off.

[tom.guerry]

One way to think of it:

plane adjustment is a combo of lateral tilt of spine which controls how the torso/spine angle is positioned/set, AND

how much the front arm stays down or gets up off the chest (this is more related to the "weathervane"cue)

The handle torque at go creates a cusp that drives the bathead by torso stretch reversing/unwinding, "bypassing" the shoulders.

Shoulders were tilted as part of lateral tilt, then locked on to torso to conect via lead arm.

The upper body action is hands/forearms/arms/scaps controlled by hands with hands first GO superimposed on synched upper/lower body runnng start.

[tom.guerry]

Excellent diagnosis by GEM:

I can see that. I guess I've never really understood what it is that I do differently than the others that keep their hands back longer than I do.

[redwill]

I don't have time to illustrate on the clip....I will later....but watch the tip of the barrel. Stare at it. Over and over and over. Get a feel for what it does, when, and how quickly it does it.

What is it's first movement?

Then, stare at his handset.

What do they do?

Do you see the "lead elbow into the swing plane move"? Or do you see a pivot point around the hands? I see a sudden circular start of the barrel around the hands. The rear elbow does move down.....but not to move the lead elbow up into the plane first. I do not see a set the plane then swing move. I just see a swing.

How do they stay there and do that?

What must the hands do to create that?

What leverage does he create in his handset so that the first thing the barrel does is to go rearward?

IMO, there is only one answer......forearm rotation.

I will try to create a close up clip of forearm rotation. That would help.

I believe you can see a "snap the pole" movement in Utley. While his bat angle is not vertical like the pole would be....it is more tilted......the concept is almost identical.

The forearms are the "movers" of the "snap the pole" concept. Create that leveraged, loaded feeling in your forearms.....then snap the pole. You will instantly see/feel how the body prepares to help that movement.

TEACH, in trying to simplify things so that the right feels are finally and fully felt, I want to mimic the Utley simplicity and your description of it here. Just want to make sure that things haven't evolved too much from this point as to make that counter productive in any way. Utely going "up and back" reminds me of the Ted clip you have posted in places. Ted is just demo'ing how he initiates the early part of his upper torso pullbacks. Thanks!

[Teacherman]

Good thread still accurate.