Swing Down, Damn It

[Teacherman]

These barrels are launched DOWNWARD. Rearward and downward. They are not flattened then turned upward....with the 'turn upward' being the launch. All the pros swing down. All the mindless on the internet HATE to read that. Epstein and Williams really made a mistake when they started the 'match the plane of the pitch' nonsense. I haven't been around long enough to know if they were the first....but I believe they were....and what they have created, to get rid of the swing down and stay down swings, are two move swings. They criticize the swing down swings that stay down....and teach an up swing. And in the process they create the two move swing....the flatten then swing....the slot then swing swings....that the Lubanski's and Hamilton's (pros who invested heavily in Epstein's teaching) quickly learn has no chance at high levels. When you are taught to swing up at a 10-15 degree angle....you have to flatten/slot first....so you can swing up....and you end up bleeding the corner THEN swinging up instead of down like Bonds/Manny/Pujols/all the greats from behind the corner. The flatten then swing swing is a LONG swing. When Bonds or Pujols talk about a direct line to the ball....straight down to the ball....that is EXACTLY what they do. They TURN the barrel down....rearward and down. The barrel is swung 'about the hands'....around the hands. When it gets to the bottom of the arc it, the barrel, TURNS upward. But the hitter swung down.

The flail part of the swing....IS THE SWING.

To discourage 'swinging down' when in fact all the greats swing down....and swing down on almost every pitch (high pitch is the exception) is hitting malpractice.

[Teacherman]

This is one reason why many of the hitters I have worked with look good doing stop swings. Because in the stop swing....they launch and spend....and are done. The flail part of the swing is the swing in a stop swing. But as soon as you ask them to do a full swing....the flail is no longer their swing. The forward part....after the flail....becomes their swing.

I have posted these before in the "After the Instructor Leaves" thread....but here they are again.



In the first clip....the 'after the instructor left' clip....he was no longer swinging during the flail....like he was when the instructor was standing right there.

[Teacherman]

Here are the stop swings that led to the 'flail swing'.



Stop swings with a toss....




Snap/stop swing without the stop. Feels just like a stop swing....you launch and spend down the flail....but you release it.

[Teacherman]

He's swinging down in every clip.

[Teacherman]

The long and short of this thread is this.

Epstein saw young hitters swing down and stay down so he taught them to flatten then swing so they could swing up. And in so doing removed (if they had it) or prevented (if they didn't have it) swing suddenness. He taught them to add slop to their swing. They created a two move swing. To get the barrel path he wanted he prevented suddenness.

THE PROPER FIX would have been to get them one legged, rear legged, with SnF around the rear hip joint so that when they TURN the barrel downward, from that weight back position, it won't stay down....it will turn upward.

The young hitters problem was not that they swung down....it was that they stayed down. And they stayed down because of improper weight shift.

Easy exercise.

Stand with weight 50/50 over both legs. Swing down. You will stay down.

Then stand with weight back over the rear leg. Swing down. Your barrel will turn upward.

[Pronk]

The lead arm is working up of course. Perhaps a little less so in Braun, but if that lead elbow is staying down the finish will also be low.

In any case when you look at the hank aaron clips and see that his bat, much like bonds is forward tipped while the ball is halfway home, how the hell does he have time to slot then swing? He's just turning it right away. No Carve, Filet. I really don't mind Carve-Filet as a video analysis but if you teach it that way you'll get a two-part swing.

Some where on here when Steven was 14 I recall Sherpa being at the cage with me and we told Steven Swing down on it. He started smashing the ball. If anything it looked more uppercutish. However we were never able to maintain that for some reason, but that day was good.

[Shadow]

Are you talking swing the barrell down (rearward) because every little league coach I've seen tell kids to swing down which they mean hit down on the ball almost taking the hands down at an angle from launch. This seems to create a tomahawk/chopping type swing.


Just a little confuse when you say "swing down". Always thought that was wrong. I see the barrell goes down when you lauch rearward, so I assume you mean barrell down, not hands.

[Teacherman]

"These barrels are launched DOWNWARD. Rearward and downward."

[Teacherman]

Do you have a chance to hit the ball deep if you don't swing down?

[Teacherman]

If you look at these hitters and conclude that they DON'T swing down.....then you are missing the giddyup. You are missing where/when the giddyup occurs.

They are all early.....behind the corner.

How can you giddyup behind the corner and NOT swing down?

[Teacherman]

Which direction is Manny swinging?

Is he 'matching the pitch plane'?



Does his sweet spot REALLY stay in the plane for a long time?

If so, how?

If he is rotating around his spine is it possible for the sweet spot to stay in line with the ball for a long time?

I say the sweet spot passes the line of the ball twice....IF....you are rotating about your spine....and it is NOT in line for a long time. It is in line for TWO very short moments in time....IF....you are rotating about your spine.

Manny does not rotate about his spine. Hip rotation does NOT power Manny's swing.

[Teacherman]

You see, in this clip, and the one in the post above, Manny is NOT swinging about his spine. He is swinging 'Out From' his body....not around his body.

His barrel is launched downward and rearward ABOUT HIS HANDS.....NOT....about his body/spine.

And therefore he can 'let out' the arms to control the direction of his sweet spot, to keep it in line with the ball, because the sweet spot is being driven AROUND the hands/forearms, and NOT around the body's rotation, and therefore he can keep it in line with the ball....without degrading his speed/energy/power.

IF he was swinging around his spine....his barrel would pass the line of the ball twice.....once deep....and once out front....as the barrel would arc about the spine. The 'arc' would stay in line with the ball....but the sweet spot would not without adjustment. IF he 'let out his arms' to keep alignment, he would be disconnecting from his power supply which would be his hip/spine rotation. He would never have the success he has had by doing that. Yet.....THAT is what 99% of the hitting world believes.

The fact of the matter is....hitters launch the barrel rearward and downward behind them....their power supply is the SnF....which develops as their forearms turn the barrel rearward while the hip/back/scap resist rotation and work against the rear leg which is driving/turning forward. The SnF launch creates a BURST....a sudden burst of energy that the arms then are able to direct to the ball.

I believe the 'matching the plane of the pitch'.....as described by Epstein et al.....is HOGWASH.

[Teacherman]

Cabrera doing the same thing Manny is doing....swinging 'out from' his body....NOT....around his body.

[Teacherman]

'Out From' the body (high level) versus 'Around' the body (amateur)

[Teacherman]

Do not misinterpret my demo of "out from".

I am showing direction not speed.
I am showing direction not energy production as the hands move forward.
I am showing the direction of the burst....out from....not around.

My barrel is being turned rearward. My arms are taking the turning barrel forward....showing direction....not a push.

In a real swing....at real speed....the barrel is turned rearward about the hands....and when the SnF release happens the hands BURST forward into the ball which is out over the plate.

The hands do not follow the body's rotation.