Forward Momentum

[Stealth]

Rich and I have fought over this for years......

Since I started focusing on throwing with my boys I now understand where Rich was coming from and why. To much forward momentum can kill the stretch and fire, the rear hip socket separation etc. - with Mini the forward momentum kills his sequence, take it away and he syncs up pretty good throwing the baseball.

[Teacherman]

Some how, some way you've got to get 'turning' action in the hip socket before you move out.

Even if it is 'isometric' so to speak. Stalemated. Things are trying to turn but aren't actually moving yet.

That is where my 'falling off the barstool' came from. You have to remain back over/onto the rear leg in order to get that turning to happen early.

If you have too much momentum too soon, you fall off the barstool. Your rear leg gets too angled forward. By 'feel' you are no longer 'on top' of your leg....you are 'beside' it....against it.....and you can't get 'around' the ball when you are beside/against....and the 'pull back' range of motion gets limited. The load around gets limited.

Learn to love failure. Failure creates problems that need to be solved. Be a problem solver. Brandon failed so much it was nonstop for me.

Then suddenly, WOW. But, it was just too late for him.

START NOW.

It took us from 2001 to 2007. Much of that time we were chasing a snipe. When I finally decided to own it.....BINGO. Within 6 months he was a monster at his level.

He got too old too soon. Don't let that happen to your son/daughter.

This stuff will stimulate you mentally if you dig in deep.

[Teacherman]

With YOUR work and MY lead....you are just a few short weeks/months away from the pattern.

Then, you will learn with each and every at bat.

If he's 12 HOW GOOD WILL HE BE AT 16?

But without the pattern you learn nothing.

[Pronk]

Did you see my Stride link or where I noticed the back leg thing with your two boys where Ryan stays stacked over the foot? My feeling is that hinders the early leg winning. Basically look at it like this. You told me sometime back, watch Dreese and see if Steven can duplicate. The thing Dreese and Thome 600 and countless others do who stride, is the knee seems to be moving away a little also. And when you do this, you will really limit the "too much, too far", the leg opens so early. Because when they don't do this they start to pull the front leg out to get momentum. And the entire time until the front leg starts to open a little the back leg is stuck, not turning.

[retkag]

Freese Thome clips

Pronk,

If you have those clips could you post them. I am very interested in looking at this closer.

retkag

[Tewks]

Thome 596...

[Stealth]

Pronk - you have the Dreese clip?

[Tewks]

Pronk - you have the Dreese clip?

Freese? D is next to the F.

[Tewks]

This is the only one I have.

[Tewks]

Compare to...








Cabrera is almost getting hit in the face and is still turning the barrel before bailing... Chipper almost gets hit, turning, then bail. Trout pushes the hands, then bails....


Watch Chipper's rear hip very closely. Projection.




And for fun and educational purposes:

[Stealth]

Freese? D is next to the F.

I knew something wasn't right. I should finish my coffee before copying Pronk.

[Teacherman]

This 'catcher view' is the view that 'gives it away'.

Watch his belt loop coil early. That is that 10-15 degree hip socket move.

BUT.....at the very same time he is opening his pelvis.

Loaded in the rear hip socket....pelvis opening....simultaneously....results in very little actual movement. Hip socket is coiling as the leg turns the pelvis forward....no net gain of movement.....HUGE net gain of stretch.

His leg/hip assembly gets rock solid against which, into which, he circles his barrel. A great bow and arrow example. When he circles his barrel against his solid hip/leg he is pulling the string back against the bow.

The stretching going on in and around the rear hip socket and lower back is HUGE....with little actual movement.

Watch his hands/arm/scap 'circle' to The Truth.

Try to 'circle' without getting 'behind/around' in the socket.

And he does it from on top of the barstool....even though he has significant forward momentum.

[Pronk]

Garrett, on my Stride page you see Thome 600, and Freese or Dreese I am getting confused. There back leg is moving entirely. Steven's back leg stays stacked for a long time (in frame by frame) and finally when it gets going, the rear leg wins. By that time of course his stretch is much better but not what it could be.

I need to update this page with that old Bonds clip. My feeling is that when my kids and many others turn the lead leg in at the hip socket (internally rotated) that the back leg is stalled until you see that move that builder calls bleed. Again not an absolute, but as soon as they clear it (foot still in the air) the back leg has more freedom. When I turn my front leg in, my pelvis turns back and the leg gets stuck until I turn the leg out. There is nothing wrong and my guess we can see some pros do that, but most elites, that front leg stays fairly dead. Not turning in, and only turning out just a little. Many examples Ryan Braun etc.

I personally don't feel the knee lifters on my page (braun bautiista) internally rotating that front leg. They lift but don't lead with the heel.

In a nutshell, I need Steven's momentum to look like Freese, or Thome 600 or Braun if I want his leg to win earlier.

This means that:
- I want the back leg to drive the momentum so that visually his knee isn't stuck stacked over the foot
- Like the old Pirates Bonds clip I love, I don't want him to do anything to limit the freedom of the back leg to turn. Meaning I want him to feel the lead leg turned out. When he does this, the leg seems to drive out a little better.

Stride page (not updated recently with my front leg staying turned out a little) Please feel free to correct I asked for input but this has the Thome, Freese etc. -
http://coachdm.hittingillustrated.com/Stride.html

The clip I made of Ryan/Matt, where I felt Ryan throwing (steven is doing this) his back knee is staying stacked over the foot much longer than matt, and although his flexibility is good, and I guess Ryan throws harder, I can't help but think he's leaving velocity on the table because he has transferred weight to the front leg BEFORE the leg won. So the leg doesn't really win, he has to throw around not out from.

I am having a hard time teaching this right now personally, but just the throwing clip of bautista shows it. The back knee going down and in almost instantly. Molitor-like. Here is the clip of the Stealth kids throwing, where I felt the little guy got better forward mo. Maybe his front leg being cleared helped:




Finally the Bonds clip which I like so much for how I want the front leg to stay oriented outward, so the back leg wins sooner.

[Pronk]

Keep in mind I am talking about how to use the front leg in such a way that the front leg is dead to the hitter. I think my kids still need to know how I want it used, but the goal in using it that way is so that it's not a force in pulling the swing through. If that back leg can "win" sooner all you do is land and balance on the front.

[Tewks]

Rear hip joint. Rear hip joint. Rear hip joint...