Loading Around....v....Counterrotation

[Teacherman]

What is the difference?

HINT: It's related to the bat wrap discussion we had a few months ago. And you can find the answer by studying the SnF drill.

[swingbuilder]

Around the RHPP vs Around the Spine.

[Teacherman]

That's part of it. But if we told 'them' (those who teach scap loading is good and counterrotation is bad) that that was the difference, they would still say you've turned your numbers too far to the pitcher lengthening the path to the ball.

What else?

[cartersball]

Ok I am probably wrong, but I will shoot first.

When I hear loading around I think of the feeling of load in the rear hip socket. The "wringing out of the rag" with the bottom of the top loading against that rear leg. Trying to get the rear hip to go in the opposite direction of the leg supporting it.

Counter rotation to me does not require this action. It can and most likely will be interpreted as "the top and the bottom" aka hips and shoulders rotating away from the oncoming pitch.

[swingbuilder]

Well, I'd say it would deal with when the unload began with in the load or around.

But loading around is NOT a upper body move as is counterrotation. The ability to resist must work with the around/coil just as it does with the back around/ uncoil/ thrust.

[swingbuilder]

The real bottom of the top vs the real top of the bottom....

[powertoallfields]

I'd say, one lacks resistance from the bottom and it, to me, one would have a circular hand path and the other a linear hand path. There is also no thrust in the counter rotation swing, there is just unwind. The glutes and the upper abs load around, the shoulders, lats and scaps cause counter rotation.

[Ben]

I will take a stab at this.

When I think Loading around I think resistence of the front knee trying to move forward while the rear hip is trying to move reward. At the same time the hands are staying back.

Counterrotation is more have everything go back with no resistence in the lower half, shoulder rotate back, but no resistence at the bottom.

[GroundUp]

Here’s my stab at this.

“Loading around” is use of the lower torso to ‘rotate’ backwards against a firm rear leg. The hips are considered the “bottom of the top”.

“Counter rotation” is using the upper torso (shoulders) to ‘rotate’ backwards when attempting to coil.

[cartersball]

LOL so far all of our answers sound the same.

[GroundUp]

Yes .... the answers do appear to be somewhat similar.

Now .... during the "walk away from the hands" portion of the swing ... what is really going on? Are you really "walking away from the hands"? Are you "reaching back with the hands"? Are you pumping the hands "down and in" ... and then "up"? Are the hands merely following the counter rotation? Are the hands counter rotating around in excess of the upper body? Is there a combination of this taking place?

[Philliesphan22]

Does one create too much bat wrap?

[imagine44]

The difference is what happens when you laterally tilt.

[swingbuilder]

I don't laterally tilt on purpose...now what? hehehe

[Teacherman]

IMO, the largest difference between 'load around' and 'counterrotation', is turning the barrel v pulling the knob. The difference is applying force perp to the handle v down it's length.

When you pull the knob, and counterrotate, you are lengthening the swing. Because the barrel doesn't arc to the ball until the hands, which are moved further back by the counterrotation, get out front to their 'end of the rope' destination. So, with counterrotation, you are lengthening that distance from start to arc.

When you turn the barrel, and 'load around', which resembles counterrotation, the hands do not have to travel at all before the barrel will arc.....because the hands are turning the barrel from the armpit/shoulder tip at the gitgo. They may travel....depending on pitch location and timing.....but if they do....the barrel is already arcing. The 'load around', is simply more stretch. It has nothing to do with increasing the distance before which the barrel can arc.....because the barrel will arc immediately from whatever amount of 'load around' or 'counterrotation' that a given hitter has.

And, when the initial angle of attack of the barrel, is toward the opposite field, on every swing, regardless of location, with the hands/shoulders resisting the forward turn of the rear hip, it leads to even more stretch. Which is a good thing. And if the barrel direction needs to be changed, to 'down central' or 'inside', the body is capable of 'turning a little'....in the rear hip joint.....to allow bat ball alignment for the given pitch....WITHOUT BLEEDING THE STRETCH....because as it does that, the hands/shoulders are still resisting.

THIS IS BIG.

Counterrotation of a knob puller lengthens their swing. Loading around, (I use a different term for the same thing so as to distinquish the difference between them) does not lengthen the swing. The hands will turn the barrel from whatever direction the 'load around' has taken them to....and is easily adjusted without bleeding the load....and without forcing early commitment.

THIS IS BIG.