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Step One For New Members

If you are reading this, you are in the main forum....where all the good discussion and exchange of ideas occurs.

Instructional threads are 'stickied' to the top of this forum page in an effort to get new members to see the work that gets done here. There are 5 different threads of a dad and his kid, going through the HittingIllustrated process. They are quite instructional. I think you'll be impressed with what you see. The kid's progress is amazing. One of them is now a D1 player who chose college after being drafted. Another is a DII college player. A third is his brother who is now in high school. The fourth is a current high school freshman. And the fifth is my son who is now out of college and playing amateur fastpitch softball. Take a look. The terminology is likely to confuse you at first. But do your best to understand.

Then, there is another forum titled The Second Engine, found just below this one on the main page, which consists of 18 threads that have been chosen as 'good reads' for new members to get 'up to snuff' on what is taught here.

It is my recommendation that you spend your first hour or so in that forum reading those threads. Then, come here to ask questions. We love it when clips of hitters are posted.

And here is a link to an Instructional Starter Pak. It has the basic information. There are many details that go with each step that are too cumbersome to put in the Pak.

Instructional Starter Pak

MAKE THE BEST USE OF YOUR TRIAL PERIOD
POST A CLIP OF YOUR SON OR DAUGHTER
I'LL GIVE YOU AN ANALYSIS AND A RECOMMENDATION.

If I were you, I'd concentrate on figuring out what the Hand Pivot Point and what the Rear Hip Pivot Point are....and how they are synced together to create the high level swing.

Welcome.
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Skype With Kyle and Eric (his dad)

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  • Skype With Kyle and Eric (his dad)







    I Skyped with Kyle and his dad Eric (ersmith) yesterday and had a productive session.

    Here is Kyle's previous thread.

    http://www.hittingillustrated.com/fo...highlight=kyle

    Whenever I work with someone for the first time, I have to go though a series trial and error cues, to try to get him to find either the hand pivot point or the rear hip pivot point. If I can get the hitter to do one of them, I can usually get him to improve the other because they are so interrelated to the overall move. I usually start with the hand pivot point.

    So, I first had Kyle turn the barrel with his hands while trying to 'hold' the shoulders and hips square.....keep them from moving....to introduce the hand pivot point. I wasn't having much success with that. So, I went to the lower body and tried to have him 'shift and swing' instead of 'shift then swing'. Still no success. In fact, some of the resulting movements were completely whacky....no offense to Kyle....they were just a result of my cue being interpreted by his overall body pattern and they simply weren't compatible. Both HG and jbooth have been through this.

    I finally had to go 'big'....I had to go to a 'full body move'.....a 'full body cue'....to get him to change his overall pattern. The 'small cues'....hands....hips....were being 'blocked' by his concept of what the overall move was. His overall body move was a swing down with shoulder rotation. And no matter what cue I offered....the shoulder rotation would dominate.

    So....the full body cue I offered was 'show me the most ridiculous uppercut you can'.

    And he immediately fell into the pattern. The result is a 'big' version of the pattern. It's a little sloppy. It needs to be tightened up. But, when you get a hitter into the 'big' version of the pattern, tighening is relatively easy....especially easy when compared to breaking down his overall guardrails. I've posted before how when working with hitters they try to 'add' what I'm cueing to their existing swing....instead of changing their existing swing. This was another example of that. The guard rails had to be broken down.

    The comparison videos above are by no means perfect. But, I'd like to point out the improvements.

    Neither the hand pivot point nor the rear hip pivot point are perfect. Each are a little sloppy. They both will be improved. BUT....the exceptional thing that came out of the 'overall body cue'....the uppercut cue.....was.....is.....the overlap We talk a lot about the rear hip turning in front of the hands. Notice in the 'before' clip how his rear hip 'pushes' his hands instead of pulls them....because it never gets in front. This may be a difficult thing for many of you to 'see'. It is more easily 'felt'. You may have to feel it before you see it. But once you 'get it' it just jumps out at you every time you see a clip. Basically the rear hip moves in front and turns from in front of the hands...thereby 'pulling' the hands....instead of pushing them....and this leads to the whip/cusp.

    Kyle 'found' the overlap today. Hopefully he will develop an understanding of that and build his swing based on that underlying move that 'just happened' as a result of changing his overall body cue.

    Where do we go from here? Well....you can still see a hint of shoulder rotation in his swing. This means he isn't truly 'bypassing' the shoulders. He isn't truly 'resisting' rotation of the shoulders. He's trying....but it's sloppy. When we can get a more solid platform from the torso.....by resisting shoulder rotation....he'll be able to turn the handle better....tigher.....before the hands move....they are being moved too early by the shoulder rotation now....AND.....he'll get a tighter more sudden cusp as the hips 'win' the tug of war. That resistance will also help him control his weight....and keep it back a little longer.

    I jump for joy when I see a large change like this. I guess I'm the eternal optimist. It is from here that he can improve. It took me and my son about 5 years to 'find' this position....then a few weeks to improve it and he had almost immediate game results. Of course....there is still work to do. Finding and tightening a swing is one thing. Hitting with that swing is another thing. But.....the 'learning to hit with that swing' is a whole lot more fun.....than the constant trial and error involved in searching for the pattern. And he can be productive as he learns to hit with that swing.

    These things will take reps. Lots of reps. Learning to create resistance and use it effectively is where we go from here.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Teacherman View Post
    So....the full body cue I offered was 'show me the most ridiculous uppercut you can'.
    Yeah, sometimes you have to do that with the "down" swingers. Epstein would tell them to pretend they were in an elevator, and try to hit a ball up the elevator shaft. Gets them on the back side and swinging UP.

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    • #3
      I like the tear down and it goes to the heart of breaking down guardrails.
      Nice Job!

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      • #4
        This is similar to Epstein.

        About 5 years ago after I referred a couple of people to an Epstein clinic, they wrote back they were unhappy and thought he was crazy because he had the kids work the front elbow WAAAAY up and pretend they were going to hit the ball over the trees/over the moon.

        They were scared of uppercutting and went looking for other methods.

        It can be hard for people to know who to trust.

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        • #5
          I bumped into Kyle and Erik at the fields last night and they were quite excited and felt the skype was a real help.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by curious View Post
            Yeah, sometimes you have to do that with the "down" swingers. Epstein would tell them to pretend they were in an elevator, and try to hit a ball up the elevator shaft. Gets them on the back side and swinging UP.

            I have been using this cue with some students of mine and when they do that line drives whip off the impact bat (a training aid I am using).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by mcallister View Post
              I have been using this cue with some students of mine and when they do that line drives whip off the impact bat (a training aid I am using).
              How did your Epstein training go?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 1chapterahead View Post
                How did your Epstein training go?
                The Epstein training went well. I am super late in posting.

                About to post a thread...

                mcallister

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                • #9
                  A couple of initial impressions post-skype. I should had read this summary prior to now because I didn't take away the part about the upper cut queue was what made the greatest impact, otherwise I would have put that entirely first in post practice. The swing is not game-enabled yet and we encountered some issues in BP. I suspect that he will resist using the new swing in a game until he starts hitting it well in BP.

                  Kyle said he felt a bit rushed with the synchronous weight shift and launch. So I suggested that he could ride his back weight a bit while working on the timing. That seemed to cause some instability, so I suggested that he put some weight on the inside of his rear leg (as he has been taught by his pitching coach), which I interpret as a slight fall forward until you commit to the weight shift. Is this advisable? Maybe taller kids have a higher center of gravity to manage. As far as the actual hits, well, we are still working on results. There were a few well hit balls, but there were more pop ups and a high number of fouls to left. We're continuing to work on what we learned until we get it right.

                  One amusing note, in the QT audio of the clip, our tree being hit makes a pretty convincing ball sound.

                  http://ersmith.hittingillustrated.co...-03-20-hi1.mov

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ersmith View Post
                    Is this advisable?
                    Riding the back leg means maintaining your rear leg/hip load while you move forward under control.

                    If your words..."a slight fall forward until you commit to the weight shift"....means the same thing then yes, I agree. As long as he learns to control that 'slight fall'.

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                    • #11


                      Here is Bonds riding his back leg under control. His 'ride' starts as he lifts his hands.

                      He doesn't ride real long on the fastball.....but rides quite a while on the offspeed pitch.

                      To be able to do both....unload early....and unload late.....the ride must be under control.

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                      • #12
                        I think he's getting up on the front leg early. Even when you guys demo'd to me right after your skype session.

                        At least try some of these it's a little exaggerated but you'll see and feel like your back leg is staying loaded until go.

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                        • #13
                          Another thing ER.

                          Look where Kyle's head is in the new clips. Look where Kent's head is. This should be an indicator that he's giving up that load in the back leg too soon. This is why I highly recommended drills where you stay on the back leg longer than you think you need to.

                          See Carlos Pena:

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                          • #14
                            I see what you mean Pronk. Kyle looks so upright compared to Pena. His travel coaches described him as "stiff". I now have to undo the early weight transfer he's had for so long.

                            Also, when I keep the weight back with my own swing, the power from the separation seems stronger.

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